Talk:Super Saiyan 2
SSJ2 Goten-Trunks Look everyone it is proven in the GT Perfect Files Goten and Trunks are confirmed to make the transformation to SSJ2 , if you dont take my word my good friend Kazi himself has read it to and seen the book it is confirmed How weird is it that two people he know an seen the GT Perfect files say the same thing and another guy comes, brings false information at first (stating their is another one by toie), and he says were wrong, come on (Goten.GT1 17:00, 17 November 2008 (UTC)) Dekoshu 17:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC) I believe they can tranform into Super Saiyan 2 if something happened to them. here are two cards from japan showing each of Goten's Transformation's the left is Super Saiyan the right is Super Saiyan 2. as you can see on the picture on the right Goten tand the one on the left is Goten at Super Saiyan 2. (Goten.GT1 18:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)) Dekoshu 21:31, 17 November 2008 (UTC) I understand your point. :You say these are cards. I thought we were going to see something from the GT Perfect Files? -- 22:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC) There are absolutely no differences in Goten's appearance that I can see. If he was SSJ2, they most likely would have drawn sparks around him, and gave his skin more of a gleaming look, a strong characteristic in Super Saiyan 2. They may also have given his face a more stern look. Plus, cards are not official info, as they are not made by Toriyama, Toei, or even FUNimation...Just thought I'd throw that out there. SSJGoku93 23:16, 17 November 2008 (UTC) i put these here until kazi uploads the images of the confirmation page. In the Dragonball GT Perfect Files (Goten.GT1 23:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC)) Okay cool, I'm interested to see these, as I'd imagine Goten and Trunks would both have eventually ascended, but you'd really need proof. SSJGoku93 23:25, 17 November 2008 (UTC) Dekoshu 23:32, 17 November 2008 (UTC) They're right, Goten.GT1. I really love to see Goten and Trunks becoming a Super Sayan 2, but I'm pretty sure it's difficult to see them transforming into it. i will message him now, dekenshu if you dont belive the can then i got not much more to say to you, ive seen the confirmation it is official all thats let is to show it to you guys. (Goten.GT1 00:14, 18 November 2008 (UTC)) :Well I've given both Goten.GT1 and his friend Kazi22, who supposedly had the undisputed evidence from the actual Dragon Ball GT Perfect File books that "confirmed" Goten and Trunks' ascension to SSJ2, 3 days to actually reveal the "evidence". Now 3 days have passed and the only thing that has been brought out to the playing field are these promotional trading cards AND a pathetic excuse from Goten.GT1 stating he's still waiting on his friend to scan the images from his own supposed Perfect File book. Well I believe that after days of deliberation and Goten.GT1 quite frankly wasting everybody's time, I should just finish this myself. So here it is. :From the GT Perfect Files :It's a pretty simple chart. It's arranged by the actual stage name (blue background), and then the characters that achieve it are listed beneath that. :サイヤ人 = chou (suupaa) saiyajin = Super Saiya-jin / Saiyan :トランクス = torankusu = Trunks :孫悟天 = son goten = Son Goten :For a full breakdown, though: :SSJ1: :- Son Goku :- Son Gohan :- Son Goten :- Vegeta :- Future Trunks :- Trunks :- Gotenks :- Vegetto :SSJ1 Stage 2 ("USSJ"): :- Son Goku :- Future Trunks :- Vegeta :SSJ1 Stage 3 ("USSJ2") :- Son Goku :- Future Trunks :SSJ2: :- Son Goku :- Son Gohan :- Demon Prince Vegeta :- Gotenks (though not displayed) :SSJ3: :- Son Goku :- Gotenks :SSJ4: :- Son Goku :Pretty sure this particular guide was written before DBGT episode 59 when Vegeta went SSJ4, so that explains that exclusion (and no movie characters are mentioned, so Gogeta isn't in here at all). :So there you have it. Goten and Trunks are only listed under regular ol' SSJ1. 04:27, 21 November 2008 (UTC) We can put Gotenks there, it was stated that he can go Super Saiyan 2 in Daizenshuu #7. (Eisoniq 10:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)) ::Yes Gotenks was also listed as SSJ2 on this chart. I forgot to add him in my last post. I am 71.104.122.55 BTW. '-- bulletproof' :Sounds pretty open and shut to me. :-) Thanks for posting that info. -- 10:34, 21 November 2008 (UTC) I wanna Know why isent Gogeta their then because Gogeta was on the Dragonball GT Anime show and made the transformation fusion to Super Saiyan 4 in the Show not the movie. And i see what the Problem is man you own vol 1 i own vol 2 and i think Kazi to so Thats why mine has Gogeta vegeta listed in Super Saiyan 4 and Goten and Trunks as Super Saiyan 2. (Goten.GT1 21:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)) ::I own both, and nowhere is it listed that that Goten and Trunks reached SSJ2. "I see what the problem is man." WOW Could you have come up with a worse argument than that?'-- bulletproof' 08:41, 22 November 2008 (UTC) And what do you mean Paticular Guide all Vol 1 are the same which is the one you displayed and all Vol 2 are the same, you say it like their are different guides when their are not. (Goten.GT1 22:16, 21 November 2008 (UTC)) :look at you still trying to cover your butt. "this particular guide" as in Perfect File #1 was written before DBGT episode 59. Never said that it was a whole 'nother guide. You're just trying to twist my words around to attempt to make me look bad. Pathetic. There is no evidence that Goten or Trunks made it to SSJ2 because it never happened. '-- bulletproof' 08:16, 22 November 2008 (UTC) I removed all the parts about Goten and Trunks as so far we have absolutely no evidence. The facts and links that 71.104.122.55 posted are quite compelling and good enough evidence for me and all of you most likely. So, I deleted it, but if any of you feel we should wait to delete it feel free to add them back in if you have some proof. SSJGoku93 22:55, 21 November 2008 (UTC) :I agree completely. Goten.GT1, if you have evidence of Goten and Trunks achieving Super Saiyan 2, by all means post it! Otherwise, the matter seems closed. -- 23:14, 21 November 2008 (UTC) see guys its not as easy for me, i dont have a digital camera, scanner nothing to be able to show you guys it harder for me, and me kazi22, ssj2abj are not lieing its just hard for mr guys. (Goten.GT1 23:19, 21 November 2008 (UTC)) Dekoshu 23:20, 21 November 2008 (UTC) Show me your evidence of SS2 Goten and Trunks. We are not accusing you guys of any lie, however we just feel that solid hard evidence is needed for this matter. If you can get us some evidence, we'd be happy to re-post it as it would be true. SSJGoku93 23:26, 21 November 2008 (UTC) BTCS13 19:11. 24 November 2008 (UTC) that in order to be SS2 ur hair is spiker and stands on its end, with electricity surrounding the Saiyan. now we can go on & on about this but the evidence speaks for itself & the evidence is saying that in DBGT GOten & Trunks Achieved the ss2 form ONCE but it was when they were possesed by Baby, but they still achieved the form :Actually the evidence dose speak for itself. The GT Perfect File books are essentially the official Dragon Ball GT encyclopedia much like the Daizenshuu books are essentially the official Dragon Ball/Z encyclopedia. Thus, if the GT Perfect File books only list Goten and Trunks as SSJ1, then they were SSJ1. Am I saying that animation is tumped by the Perfect File books? Yes because in this instance there is an official source that states so.-- bulletproof 23:12, 24 November 2008 (UTC) Look, we have really got to settle this. All right, I'm saying that Gohan attained SSJ2 form during his ROSAT training because of that flashback scene in Cell's Mighty Breakdown, which clearly showed Gohan turning SSJ2 before he passed out. However, Bulletproof is claiming that he didn't because of the Daizenshuus. Can you please settle this arguement. Animated image I notice that there is an animated .gif in this article. Animated images are known to distract from content. For that very reason and the quality drop most wiki completely deny use of .gif format images for screenshots. Is there any real reason to put that in the article. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Nov 25, 2008 @ 04:44 (UTC) :I agree with Daniel. gif image use should be denied in this wikia. '-- bulletproof' 05:06, 25 November 2008 (UTC) First, Full-Power Super Saiyan SS2AJB Alright I'll accept the idea that Goten and Trunks never used Super Saiyan 2. I'm over it now. What I do want to put up, however, is that the Saiyan must first have achieved the Full-Power Super Saiyan. I mean Gohan was already in the Full Power Super Saiyan state and when Perfect Cell killed Android 16, Gohan became angry and transformed into Super Saiyan 2. Shouldn't that be put up? :So basically just because Gohan was a FPSSJ when he transformed into a Super Saiyan 2 you automatically assume that the Full-Power Super Saiyan state is required for a Super Saiyan 2 transformation? Well according to the Daizenshuu, Goku and Gohan are the only Saiyans to achieve the FPSSJ state. However the Daizenshuu also states that Vegeta can transform into a Super Saiyan 2. (You can look at the chart in the above discussions) Now if Goku and Gohan are the only FPSSJ users, why is Vegeta listed as a Super Saiyan 2? The bottom line is that the Full-Power Super Saiyan state is not required to ascend into a Super Saiyan 2.'-- bulletproof' 05:31, 29 November 2008 (UTC) SS2AJB So if it says, "the Saiyan must have achieve an intense emotional upheaval", how do we know what state he is in? If a Saiyan was in his normal state and experience an intense emotional upheaval, he would become a Super Saiyan. But what state would he have to be in to become a Super Saiyan 2. If he would be in his normal state, experiencing an intense emotional upheaval, and transform into Super Saiyan 2 for the first time when he couldn't even reach the Super Saiyan state, that wouldn't make much sense. :Yeah a lot of things don't make much sense. Yet the Daizenshuu still states Gohan and Goku are the only Full Power Super Saiyans. Now if this is true and Vegeta is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan 2 himself, then it is clear Full Power Super Saiyan is not a requirement to achieve the Super Saiyan 2 form. :Now if what you are trying to dispute is the clarity of the statement, "the Saiyan must have achieve an intense emotional upheaval", then I agree that this statement isn't quite clear. However, the statement currently in the article doesn't read that. It actually states, "In order to achieve this transformation, the Saiyan must have experienced an intense emotional upheaval, much like the original Super Saiyan transformation.", thus implying that in order to become a Super Saiyan 2 one must go through feelings similar to what is required to become a Super Saiyan 1. However, the Daizenshuu doesn’t quite specifically detail this either. What we could change the note to, is to have it read something like, "In order to achieve this transformation, the Saiyan must have experienced an intense emotional upheaval, much like the original Super Saiyan transformation '''but to a greater extent'."'' This implies that more anger, purity, etc. is required to achieve this form than for Super Saiyan 1. That would be closer to what the Daizenshuu says anyway. :Actually I don’t think I’m being quite clear myself. Let me try to explain now that I think I understand your argument. Of course that in order to achieve Super Saiyan 2 for the very first time it is obvious that Super Saiyan 1 is required. I’m not disputing that. What I was disputing was the statement that implied that the Full-Power Super Saiyan state was required in order to become a Super Saiyan 2, even for the first time. That is 100% false as I explained above. The Saiyan must be at Super Saiyan 1 in order to become a Super Saiyan 2 for the first time. I continue to say, "'''for the first time'", because it has been demonstrated before in the anime that a Saiyan can bypass Super Saiyan levels to transform directly into a specific level after having already previously achieved the form. Now as far as Full-Power Super Saiyan is concerned, Full-Power Super Saiyan is not a form, it is not its own Super Saiyan level, and unlike Super Saiyan Stage 2 or 3 (USSJ), it is not a stage of Super Saiyan 1 (it is not Stage 4). Full-Power Super Saiyan is the literal concept of making Super Saiyan 1 the Saiyan’s base form. Vegeta notes, ''"They look like Super Saiyans... but I don't feel the energy...! It's like... '''it's their natural state... '"'' And again, the only ones to actually do anything with the concept, as the Daizenshuu notes, are Goku and Gohan. Now because FPSSJ is a state of being, so to speak, of the Super Saiyan 1 form, then it doesn’t matter whether the user is SSJ or FPSSJ, it still is Super Saiyan 1. They are one in the same. It’s just that one is an actual form and the other is a concept. It is only for completeness' sake that the Daizenshuu and this Wiki along with millions of other fan sites actually catalogue it with the rest of the Super Saiyan levels. '-- bulletproof' 08:19, 29 November 2008 (UTC) :::It doesn't seem too complicated to me. In both cases (SS1 and SS2) the user has to be overwhelmed with desperation over a situation that he is unable to cope with in his current state. FPSS (which is just a well-trained SS1, really) doesn't have any baring on this at all, and as bulletproof pointed out, characters who have not achieved FPSS have achieved SS2, so FPSS would certainly not be a prerequisite for SS2. -- 07:56, 29 November 2008 (UTC) SS2AJB Okay so how about we say "the Saiyan must first achieve the '''Super Saiyan' form"'' instead of Full-Power Super Saiyan? :Did you read my full reply?'-- bulletproof' 19:38, 29 November 2008 (UTC) GT Was this form completely written out of the GT series? Malikarcanum 17:26, 1 December 2008 (UTC) :It was rarely used through the series, but it wasn't completely written out. '-- bulletproof' 02:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC) In what episodes was it used? The only time i saw something even remotely similar was when Goku was transforming into a Super Saiyan 3, you see it for about 2 seconds, and then he just bypasses it.Malikarcanum 13:54, 2 December 2008 (UTC) :He briefly used this form to deflect Rildo's attacks as shown in this video at 0:37 '-- bulletproof' 02:34, 3 December 2008 (UTC) SSJ2 Gotenks Its is confirmed by the makers that he reached SSJ2 but didn't use the form i been in touch with them talking about Budokai Tenkaichi 4 and FO (Which are confirmed to be made in future) so he is a known userStaff Sergeant Jack Jackson 22:30, 4 December 2008 (UTC)